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Esenthel Editor 2.0
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Tottel Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
I think a procedural painting brush would be awesome to have, so you can assign materials to the terrain, based on the angle of the normals.

For example:
- All flat terrain (angle 0 - 20): Texture 1
- Slightly sloped (angle 20 - 40): Texture 2
- etc

Then you just paint over terrain, and it assigns the materials.

Of course, you would be able to assign the texture and the angle for each step.
12-14-2012 12:32 AM
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aceio76 Offline
Silver Supporter

Post: #47
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
Will the Code Editor 2.0 support the following features:
- Refactoring (rename function and change signature at the least)
- Keyword highlighting (you dbl-click on a word and all keywords like it in the page get highlighted as well)
- Scroll-bar markups (in addition to keyword highlighting, all highlighted positions are marked in the scroll-bar so you know where else that keyword is used in the whole page)
- Bookmarking (where you use a hotkey to jump to a section of the page, and placing new bookmarks is as easy as using another hotkey)

The reason I ask is if a full blown editor is intended to be replaced, at least these 3 or 4 productivity features should be supported.

In my mind, I find it difficult to abandon a full-blown IDE with the Code Editor because of the features above and any others that add-ons and plugins provide. Since developers spend plenty of time in code, I think having these things that make their lives easier is very important to support, especially if the goal is to get people to use the Code Editor and away from a full-blown IDE.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I think removing the need to have to mess with project settings and such is important, but those are mostly things that are set once or is seldom changed once configured properly in the beginning. The features above provide a Quality-of-life to the developer on a more frequent basis.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2012 04:40 PM by aceio76.)
12-16-2012 04:34 PM
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fatcoder Offline
Member

Post: #48
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
Couldn't agree with aceio76 more. VS has been around for 20 years and is the only real choice for a serious programmer. I know I'll never use anything else.

If someone is so new to game programming (or programming in general), that they cannot fiddle with some VS settings and have to rely on the code editor, then to be quite honest, they probably shouldn't be trying to build a game.

I just think that this is what attracts kids to the forums wanting to build the next WoW, and not serious developers that use a serious IDE and want a good engine.

Just my opinion.
12-17-2012 01:43 AM
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yvanvds Offline
Silver Supporter

Post: #49
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
I second that, Aceio.

I'd like to add that debugging is a bit cumbersome with the current state of the the code editor. (Having to open up VS studio and such, it slows things down.)

I do use the code editor in my programming class, because for beginning programmers it really makes things a bit easier. No header files, no includes, almost no pointer notation, the ability to look up a class just with a middle mouse click... that all helps a lot for beginners. But i would be reluctant to use it for a real program, even though being able to compile for different platform without additional fuss is tempting.

I always wonder how a single person is able to extend himself over so many parts of an engine, but only Gregory is able to judge if he has the time/need to do that.

But I do not think developing for multiple platforms is something you only have to worry about in the beginning. I made an android version of my project half a year ago, but going back and forth between eclipse and VS was so much trouble that i decided to wait with the android version until the windows code is finished. The code editor would solve that. But leaving VS behind me would also have disadvantages, as you pointed out.

Edit: Perhaps a plugin functionality could help. This is a small but beautiful game engine with a great community. Although we all have our own projects, i for one would not mind to spend a few days adding some functionallity that i need and others might also benefit from. I already try to post some code from time to time, but there's a difference between code examples and easy to use plugins. Seeing that so many people are willing to answer support questions (i am not good at that, sorry), I imagine that the possiblity to write plugins for the editor or the library could stimulate a lot of people to give something back. It might be more useful and manageble than the community project we tried last year.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2012 02:13 AM by yvanvds.)
12-17-2012 01:54 AM
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yvanvds Offline
Silver Supporter

Post: #50
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
@Fatcoder because your post was posted while i was writing mine :-)

Although most 'kids' obviously don't know how to program, most of them are really not so drugged that they think they can create the next WoW. (yes, we all know the exceptions from the questions asked on this forum now and then.)

But for 'kids' interested in learning how to program, making a visually attractive program can be a lot more motivating compared to writing small console programs. Think of yourself when you were 17. You want to be able to show off to your parents and friends and say 'look, i made this myself.' And if esenthel can offer that without dumbing it down, all the better.

More important, when those 'kids' learned the basics and want to make a real game, they are more likely to choose esenthel for their game engine. So in that way, it does makes sense for esenthel to make things a bit more easy for 'kids' (aged 15 to 18 in my head).
12-17-2012 02:55 AM
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Shatterstar Offline
Member

Post: #51
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
i agree with yvands. being able to add plugin functionality is what this game engine needs. it would increase the community. more coders would take pride in writing the next great plugin. some could be sold at a small price. coders, amature and professional could benifit from it. now the plus side for the owner of esenthel is that it he could easily raise the value of the game engine and people would easily buy into it. Unity already does this and part of their success is do to the fact that they have plugin functionality available. there is only gain from this with no negitives or detractions to this engine if this be made possible. I hope you have been reading this Gregory and I hope you at least consider it.
12-17-2012 04:49 AM
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aceio76 Offline
Silver Supporter

Post: #52
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
I agree with many of the responses to my post at #47.

I understand the idea about making the platform easier to pick and learn, and trying to gain "stickiness" with more devs, especially the entry- to mid-level enthusiasts. They have the ability to pay for licenses, so it makes sense to allure them.

But why not just let those that can work with VS and Eclipse continue what they have without using Code Editor? The more serious devs have been using one or both of those for years, and to have them have to transplant themselves away from those precious IDEs that have been proven to work with large and complex projects, into the Code Editor that is fairly new and yet to be proven in many levels (such as productivity, manageability of large projects, ease of support when deprecating code, etc) is a very scary proposition for those with more experience under their belts.
12-17-2012 06:29 AM
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Shatterstar Offline
Member

Post: #53
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
I agree with Acieo, and im not even a programmer. I'm a 3d artist. I wouldnt attempt to make a video game without a programmer. but the thing that I've noticed about programmers, they love VS. more so than anything else. to leave VS behind, you are taking alot of programmers out of their comfort zone. it would be a big mistake to not offer support or update lib files that need to be put into VS for VS to work with Esenthel. I just want to know if there is a rumor that is going on that this may happen because this is the first time that I have ever heard about it.
12-17-2012 07:43 AM
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fatcoder Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
@Shatterstar Just to clarify, Esenthel is not dropping support for VS. The concern is more so about the development of a tool when there is already a great IDE available. Again, just my opinion.
12-17-2012 02:16 PM
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Shatterstar Offline
Member

Post: #55
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
oh...ok...thanks fatcoder. smile
12-17-2012 06:45 PM
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Rollcage Offline
Member

Post: #56
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
He's not dropping support, check the roadmap. 2012 VS is on the way. The code editor has potential, it just needs a lot more work to be able to compete with VS, like project views and refactoring. The ability to choose your own font would be cool but not really required.
12-17-2012 11:17 PM
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monkey Offline
Member

Post: #57
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
I just bought a license for EE 2 and looking forward to working with it.

I notice the terrain painting is not working in EE 2 though (unless I am doing something wrong?), can I just use the tools from EE 1 for now or are they incompatible?
12-20-2012 04:24 PM
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yvanvds Offline
Silver Supporter

Post: #58
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
they are not compatible right now. And i don't think you're supposed to use EE2.0 for anything else but testing right now. If you look at the updates, you see that you're quite often asked to delete your data when a new version comes out. It is an alpha version after all.

BUT there will be an importer to convert your project to 2.0 later on. (Promised by EE on page 2 of this thread.) So you might want to start with 1.0 now and import to 2.0 later on?
(This post was last modified: 12-20-2012 04:31 PM by yvanvds.)
12-20-2012 04:27 PM
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monkey Offline
Member

Post: #59
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
Hmmm, yes it sounds like that might be the only option then... start with version 1 and convert to version 2 when there is a working converter.

(09-16-2012 10:37 PM)Esenthel Wrote:  
Quote:I see that it's also not possible to import existing projects, but that might be added later on?
Yes, I don't want the users to need to re-import all resources and create worlds from scratch, this will be added.

@Esenthel are you sure you will definitely be able to do this? I didn't buy the version 1 as it seems stupid to buy an old version when there's a new one underway and since the underlying engine/API is the same I am willing to embrace the latest work

... but I think others like me will also have this same dilemma now - should we invest our time and effort in EE at all when we know v1 is being superceded and v2 is not yet ready?

Would be very nice to have confirmation that we can definitely start something in v1 and be able to move to v2 as soon as it's working.

Thanks!
12-20-2012 04:55 PM
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Tottel Offline
Member

Post: #60
RE: Esenthel Editor 2.0
(12-20-2012 04:55 PM)monkey Wrote:  @Esenthel are you sure you will definitely be able to do this? I didn't buy the version 1 as it seems stupid to buy an old version when there's a new one underway and since the underlying engine/API is the same I am willing to embrace the latest work

The 1.0 editor is free to use; you pay for the license to release the game (and source code).

So, you don't buy anything to start working with the 1.0 editor. You just start working and you import in 2.0 later. smile
12-20-2012 07:35 PM
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